Sicilian1's Blog

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sicilian1: The Problem of Evil

    For the atheist the simple answer is that there can be no God because evil exists and that a perfect God would not create a world where the capacity for evil is allowed. That’s always the atheists “gotcha question.” But by making that generic argument the atheist is only scratching the surface. Which is not at all surprising because although the atheist always seems to think it is themselves to be the deep thinkers refusing to wrap their minds around such “infantile” and “constraining” thoughts as the concept of a “God” and that “ridiculous” thing called “faith”, it is actually the believer (at least a deist) who has examined the subject, wrestled with the evidence, reconciled and clearly constructed the available facts, accepted the truths bitter as they may be to swallow and persevered through it all to live by guiding principles of a God and a faith, who in fact is actually the deeper thinker.

     Is there evil in the world? Yes, absolutely, too much of it in fact. But once again upon further examination evil is in fact further proof of God’s existence. First off, evil lends credence to the spiritual nature of man. All other species kill only for food and survival. Man is the only species that kills indiscriminately and for purely emotional reasons. Only man has the real choice to commit evil acts such as murder. Whether right or wrong, justifiable or not, backed into a corner, man always has a choice to make. Every other species kills or commits “wrong” exclusively on instinct and for their survival. That man has a choice, the ability to reason proves that man has a conscience or spirit. The duality of mind and matter is not present in any other species.

   The conscience, spirit, feedom of choice leads one to the cliche’d concept of free will. Many people consider this to be a “yada-yada” argument and dismiss it without examination. But sorry to inform the atheist, it is fundamental to God’s purpose. This concept answers the question of why a perfect God would allow evil.

   The premise is that of a creator God who  created man. Now whether one believes in the karma of an afterlife or karma in this earthly life there can be no such concept if man does not have the freedom to choose between good or evil. If we as humans had no choice then we would only be robots and the concept of karma could never play a role in our decisions. If God made it so humans only had the option to choose between degree’s of goodness then that would only lead to the logical evolution that the lesser degree’s of goodness would become badness. What reasonable option would it be to only choose from degree’s of goodness. How ridiculous would it sound as humans weighed the options between being ‘really all out good’ or just ‘a little bit’ good. If one didn’t choose the option of extreme goodness than everything else would be evil.

    If humans didn’t have the option to choose then there could be no real good and there could be no real meaning to life. I myself want the option to choose. I myself invite the struggle against the forces of evil because it makes life that much more meaningful. Maybe it never was God’s intention to make this world perfect and that is not proof of His non-existence but in fact stronger proof of His existence. If the atheist want perfection then a good suggestion would be for them to live moral lives because then they can probably experience some form of perfection in this life and if there is an afterlife, in that life too.

   Why does God create evil? because if God created a perfect world that was completely moral and without sin then the concept of free will would be null and void which would not only make the strive for perfection in an afterlife for those who believe in that meaningless but also would make this life completely meaningless. God gives everyone the choice between right or wrongs, good or bad, love or hate, acceptance or rejection. If humans didn’t have those options then they could never really experience all the positives of life. The existence of all the negatives inherant in the world is what makes the positives available. How could one know, love and accept God, anyone or anything if they didn’t have the option to deny them? And that goes for all our interpersonal and societal relationships. When atheists reject God because of their insistence on freedom to do as they please they don’t understand that that freedom was given to them by God through free will.

    The personal pain and suffering of humans is another favorite argument of the atheists to prove God doesn’t exist. But what kind of humans would we be without obstacles to overcome or crisis’ to deal with? God doesn’t want weak and untested people. Our tests of faith are the greatest struggles we will ever encounter. The triumph over obstacles builds character and makes us stronger more principled human beinfs. It is during times of trouble when we discover things about ourselves and ultimately determines who we are. Those that can persevere through times of trouble and still maintain their faith in God or at least humanity have made themselves more principled human beings.

    Life is not meant to be easy. None of us live in a bubble ,everything we do and that that others do causes a chain reaction that impacts all our lives. All the trials and tribulations, both good and bad, activated by those chain reaction set off by each individual action is what makes life life and how we respond determines our ultimate fate.

     Those evil doers though sometimes seemingly getting over with their sins, will ultimately pay some kind of karmic price, whether here on earth, in a life hereafter, or with a legacy of sin and destruction for those they care about to clean up.

   I hate to say it but there is evil and corruption in the world, life is not always fair but that isn’t an excuse to compromise one’s own principles, let their faith in God and their fellow man crumble, or even to deny the bitter truths of life. God allows evil to exist by giving all humans who perpetrate it the free will to do so because it is that free will that allows humans to decide whether or not to live by God’s way ;which is for the good of mankind, so that if they decide to do God’s will they’ll be rewarded in the life hereafter or in this life through peace of mind in knowing they are living righteously. Ultimately the decision is each individual own.

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June 26, 2009 - Posted by | blog, culture, entertainment, health, history, Life, news, people, personal, philosohy, Politics, random, religion, thoughts

13 Comments »

  1. […] Original post by sicilian1 […]

    Pingback by sicilian1: The Problem of Evil | June 26, 2009 | Reply

  2. Dear Friends!
    From may 2009, (insted the old – “nikotev.wordpress.com”)I have a new blog for modern and contemporary world history – “Nikolaykotev’s Blog” with URL: http://nikolaykotev.wordpress.com/ . If you want, you can see it on this adress!
    Best wishes
    Nikolay Kotev
    NEWS: approximately 1400 photos from the Second World War

    Comment by nikolaykotev | June 27, 2009 | Reply

  3. Do you follow any of the dominant religions here in the US?

    Comment by Sundjata | July 2, 2009 | Reply

  4. I have knowledge of the 5 major religions.

    (Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity,Islam) (I also have much knowledge about Zoroastrianism/ Read my blog on Zoroastrianism)

    Basically the Eastern religions are Hinduism and Buddhism.
    The Western religions are Judaism, Christianity ans Islam.
    Zoroastrianism is the rekigion that most influenced the Western religions and was the first to confront the problem of evil.

    The Eastern religions are most concerned with confronting reality. Hinduism is ontological in nature with definitive truths while Buddhism can be classified as both a religion or a philosophy. The Eastern religions are very insightful b/c there is little revelatory evidence from the “creator” God. In fact Buddha never even said definitively if there was or wasn’t a “God” His teachings were for the “deist” “atheist” or “agnostic” though those weren’t even terms during Buddha’s time. Anyone from any faith or non-faith from any walk of life can employ Buddhist principles into their life to find peace of mind without ever compromising what they believe. The same is essentially true of Hinduism.

    Anybody from any faith can actually experience their own faiths deeper and richer through an understanding of Buddhist and Hindu teachings.

    Comment by sicilian1 | July 2, 2009 | Reply

    • Indeed, I’d never even heard of Zorastrianism before you blogged about it, but do you follow any of these religions?

      Comment by Sundjata | July 4, 2009 | Reply

  5. The that atheists supposedly pose do not disprove the existence of god no more than anything you’ve said here proves the existence.

    “Evil” is not proof of god.

    Morality is a human institution. Morality is culturally subjective. What is moral in one place is absolutely damning in another. This is culture. Right and wrong, just and unjust–these are human creations, and this truth is much easier to prove than it is to prove that god gave us morality.

    In fact, it is impossible to prove god gave us anything. Such an argument ultimately relies on the man-made spiritual writings–the Egyptian Metu-Neter; the Bible; the Quran; the Talmut.

    If you don’t believe in these works, then the idea of god falls apart, and we are left with the truth that morality is a social construct. We need morals, rules, mores, and structure in order for society to function. Murder will earn prison time because otherwise we’d be killing each other indiscriminately. The same is true for any other rules we’ve created. We need them in order to function in a society that exists for the greater good.

    But, tell me what you think!

    Comment by Sundjata | July 4, 2009 | Reply

    • –correction “The ARGUMENTS that the atheist…”

      Comment by Sundjata | July 4, 2009 | Reply

  6. Morality I feel is ingrained in man’s conscience. Many of the spiritual writings from different cultures have many of the same narritives and moral teachings that is why I believe one creeator God put that in man.

    The ancient peoples of India who started what became known as the Hindu religion which is recognized as the oldest religion developed an ontology that can allow one to draw a comparitive line to many of the other religions of the world. Their teachings on morals and ethics was very insightful and advanced. My point is that God put the humanity of man, man’s desire to live in communion w/his fellow man, in the conscience of man from the begining.

    I do believe that morality and ethics has some cultural influence, there is absolutely no doubt about that. To me the most important thing regarding morality is how man treats his fellow man. Does he show him the common respect and decency of a human being. Granted there are different degree’s to what that is.

    When I was a criminal, obviously I was breaking the law. I did have some degree of a guilty conscience and spent time rationalizing my actions to justify that I was still a “good guy” But that didn’t remove my responsibility for what I did. And although I had a solid reputation as a stand up guy in my world and my word could always be counted on; does that still mean I didn’t hurt anybody? Could the culture in which I was raised and the people with whom I rolled excuse the sins I perpetrated on my fellow man?

    Many times it was either you or them, and you had to choose sides and protect what was yours. But does that excuse it? Sometimes I had to do what I had to do to survive but if I hadn’t decided to involve myself in that world and lifestyle then I wouldn’t have had to make the choices that sometimes hurt others.

    I was brought up in a certain culture and tradition, everone in my world excepted that lifestyle without ever thinking that it was wrong. And I LOVED that life. Sometimes I miss that life. Sometimes being a civilian is boring. But did that make that life right? Just b/c everyone around me was involved in it and accepted it; did that make my decision to jump in with them right?

    I decided I had to change my perception and live by different standards. BUT I will NEVER look down on my family and friends and anybody else who lives that life. I am NOT and will NEVER be a born-again moralist. And those people that still pursue that lifestyle I respect beyond words b/c they have accepted all that comes with it. Just as they respect me for walking away.

    I have no regrets about what I did in my life. The criminal lifestyle was a part of me and helps define me as a human being. But I have closed that chapter in my life. I just have a different “something” in me that doesn’t want to live by the mores of that “culture”, “life” whatever.

    I am just a firm believer in a creator “God” and I don’t accept the atheist argument that evil proves there is no “God”

    Every man is their own individual, there are certain things some can live with while others can’t. Ceratain cultures have different mores BUT it is not for me to judge those mores. God will judge them I believe. And I’d like to think that God holds us all up to different standards. (There is actually a quote in Luke that refers to that)I would hope that whatever culture one lives in they strive for ultimate human relations in that culture where they respect others and try not to hurt anyone.

    For me, in the culture I live in the life I was living was unacceptable on many human levels. I could’ve gone on rationalizing that life or make a change for the better. I tried to make that change. Even though that life was probably more fun and enjoyable, I am now more content and peaceful.

    Comment by sicilian1 | July 4, 2009 | Reply

  7. Morality I feel is ingrained in man’s conscience. Many of the spiritual writings from different cultures have many of the same narritives and moral teachings that is why I believe one creeator God put that in man.

    I agree, but I agree on faith. I understand why atheists believe how they believe. I think they fail to realize that science itself is a religion based upon faith. When we get right down to it, the theories we have that explain our reality are all based upon the faith we have in phenomena and an origin that we cannot explain. We just have to believe that there was a Big Bang and that there was some “stuff” that was just there in the beginning–whenever that was.

    The ancient peoples of India who started what became known as the Hindu religion which is recognized as the oldest religion…

    Is this true? I’m not so sure. What about the peoples of ancient Kemet? They are the first civilization as we know it, and they had a spiritual system in place–monotheism in fact. This is a side note though because the stories that make up their religion are shared all around the world just as you noted that it is for Hinduism.

    Could the culture in which I was raised and the people with whom I rolled excuse the sins I perpetrated on my fellow man?

    That depends on what you believe. In some cultures extra-marital sex is damning and against the law. Here, that’s not the case. In some cultures a woman who has extra-marital sex is doomed to be called a whore. Here, that’s not the case (thank goodness!). Now, I do think murder and theft and perhaps a few other “sins” or wrongdoings are universally wrong for all the right reasons, but I think that there are only a few universals compared to how many culturally-based laws we have.

    I agree that “evil” disproves the existence of god. That argument really doesn’t make much sense.

    For me, in the culture I live in the life I was living was unacceptable on many human levels.

    This is a commendable statement! I wish more people would come to such a conclusion. It’s so much easier to just follow our natural (emotional) inclinations than it is to control ourselves. I’m doing all I can, and it’s a full time job! But like you, I’ve reached a state of peace that I hadn’t had before. lol I actually had to give Christianity up in order to find this peace.

    Comment by Sundjata | July 4, 2009 | Reply

  8. I agree w/what you said abt science being a religion based on faith. You can never get around faith. You really can’t even explain it. When someone buys into something they probably don’t even know why.

    I got family and Family and guys I know that buy into the “life” and rather live that “life” no matter the consequnces to themselves or the people around him. I know guys doing a million years in the feds and they’re MORE proud of that than anything in their life. In their mind you can take ANYTHING to them excwept their fed bid b/c that bid is confirmation to the “life” they’ve dedicated themselves to.

    What you said may be true abt the Kemet culture. The Indian people are at least one of the most ancient. But like you said it really doesn’t matter b/c so many of the different “Biblical” narritives and “cultural” narritives have so many similiar story. Some are “myth” some are “legend” some archeologists say they can prove are “true” but what I’ve always felt is those similarities prove to me anyway that we all came from a common progenitor.

    I hear what you’re saying abt the iambiguities w/cultural mores. That’s why I hope God has different standards w/which to judge us. I always think that b/c of the larger modern culture I live in God will probably hold me to a higher standard than an indigenous indian in the Amazon jungles who kills for his food and probably engages in an animistic for of worship. Now, that’s NOT to say I’m better than him b/c his reality and his human interaction means just as much to him. But b/c I was blessed w/the opportunities of a modern world I feel more is probably expected of me. I just do NOT feel that a creator God is going to condemn someone to hell when their reality is different.

    Ya, it is a full time job. It’s ok buy me that you had to give up Christianity to find peace. We’re all individuals and different things work for different people.

    As far as the atheist, my post was mainly geared to the extreme atheist that is ALWAYS out to “prove” the believer wrong just b/c they believe. They may in fact be right abt being an atheist but they get so radical and insulting in trying to “prove” their case that I don’t know why.

    Comment by sicilian1 | July 4, 2009 | Reply

  9. The idea that god may have different standards is a new one to me. I think I rather like the idea of that. It would imply that god meets expects us to reach OUR own potential and not the potential of the next man. It also recognizes that we are not all created equally in that some of us have genetic adaptations that cause us to be musically inclined, mathematically inclined, a warm person, a cold person, introverted, extroverted, etc.

    And I’m really not sure what’s up with those who feel the need to insult others in order to prove their point. Inadequacy seems to be the basis.

    Comment by Sundjata | July 6, 2009 | Reply

  10. Ya, I always liked that thing about standards. I mean ya, theoretically all men are created equal. But not everybody is born with the same opportunity or circumstances or sophistication and many a number of other things.

    I like that about meeting potential b/c not everybody has the same talents, like you said. But most people do have something to offer, it’s just a case of communication and respect and keeping an open mind to everyone.

    Comment by sicilian1 | July 6, 2009 | Reply

    • True indeed. Peace to you for recognizing real.

      Comment by Sundjata | July 6, 2009 | Reply


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